1. Antisemitism is not a logical position that can be defeated by rational arguments.
2. Antizionism is genocidal. (actually genocidal, because it wants to violently remove 50 percent of Jews from their homes)
With those, I see no reason to engage in any nonviolent interactions with anti zionists. My life is more pleasant when I block them and don't see them. What's the advantage of talking to these people? This is not a topic reasonable people can disagree on. There aren't a lot of topics like this, but if you start with the assumption that I should be killed along with my children, then you aren't worth talking to.
Your points are well-taken. The issue is - the people I'm mentioning here are choosing to engage with me first. So, yeah, I guess one could just ignore or dismiss them. But I won't.
I think it depends upon how onerous their position is. Saying the Holocaust never happened but it should have been is not a position I have any intention of engaging in. I'm secure that I can prove it happened by any reasonble standard, but to what purpose?
You say, “2. Antizionism is genocidal. (actually genocidal, because it wants to violently remove 50 percent of Jews from their homes)”
Before you can call it genocidal, you need to consider how those Jews got their homes — they and the land they are on were stolen from their original Palestinian owners. These are original owners, in many cases, were forced into concentration camps, or murdered.
I do not think that the current owners should be killed, but I do think they should lose their stolen property. I also think it is ironic that the current purveyors of genocide on the Palestinian people are claiming that giving up their ill-gotten gains is “genocide“. No, it’s righting a wrong.
The people who come from the US and appropriate a house that has Palestinians currently living in it are paying for that house? Not according to everything I’ve read. Your name calling is not only inaccurate, it is stupid. Anti-Zionist is not antisemitic, and by trying to paint me with that label, you are giving yourself permission to ignore my valid points.
I saw that long comment you cite here and was surprised by the level of venom. Kudos to you for not getting triggered. I do block people but I don’t advertise it as an “own.” I do it for my sanity and to keep from getting pulled into interminable debates with unreasonable people. One guy who blocked me eventually took up hours of my time with his insistent debate. I was never so happy to be censored as when he blocked me.
I respectfully disagree (to a point): I have had trolls post overtly antisemitic comments in response to my posts. These people aren’t looking for dialogue or a conversation of any type, really. They’re just Jew-haters who want to express their hatred to an actual Jew. I see no need to let those be involved in even a tangential way in my life.
You are quite courageous and open to hear what people say and not to block offensive people. I read that comment and thought it presumptuous and immature. But there are illiberal people out there who are offended by "liberal" views (and respond by being quite offensive themselves), though they are happy to take advantage of liberal forums like Medium. If people don't like your opinions, they respectfully disagree or can stop reading your posts. This is an extremely open forum. One would hope people adhere to standards of civility and not get personal, but I guess we're way past that.
I agree. I think the other problem with blocking (along with only subscribing to blogs and reading sources that share our outlook) is that we burrow even farther into our silos and falsely reassure ourselves that most of the good people out there agree with us. It's important to not lose sight of the truth of what we face out there.
Jill, not only do I tip my hat, but I also Salute you for not blocking the idiots out there! Not only does it take courage, but also a bit of intelligence. Great lines and could not have said it any better.
People honestly believe that blocking people from reading or engaging with their work punishes (or “triggers”) the blockee. No. You are the one who got triggered.
You are hilarious Jill, in a good way. I don't block people, but I ignore certain folk. By ignore, I mean I skim or just delete their response to my comments because they are the same, lame, and a waste of time. I don't block folk because if an idiot cares to threaten me in some way, I want to know about it. As for that long response from an agitated reader you posted in your essay, I lost interest midway through. What struck me was why the person took the time to post a nasty lengthy response. It indicates the person wanted to engage. They cared enough about your opinion to want you to read their opinion. Once a person reaches "jackass" category, I prefer not to get into a braying contest with them. If they continue to bray, let them. I don't listen, I don't care.
I haven't blocked anyone here on Substack, but the minute someone starts spewing hate, lies, and obnoxiousness, I see no reason to hear anything else they have to say. And if they're just idiotic and not completely rude, I write that a donation is being made in their honor to the Jewish National Fund. It feels good to plant a tree in Israel every time a pro-terror Jew-hater holds forth...
I get your point that it’s better to expose the hateful trolls for all the world to see and protect the principles of free speech rather than censor them. But that’s a two-edged sword. You’re also giving them exposure, and with it the opportunity for validation, inspiration and imitation by others of their ilk.
My position is this: They get one and only one chance to abuse me online. I won’t let them hijack my platform to promote their hateful agenda.
Whenever the question “to block or not to block” comes up, I’m reminded of how the Canadian Supreme Court recognized that the Holocaust didn’t start with the gas chambers. It started with words: the Nazi propaganda machine’s relentless, obsessive focus on demonizing the Jews and desensitizing the population so that when the horrors started, there was nary a murmur of dissent.
I get what you're saying and I don't disagree. The truth is however that very few of the trolls and haters who come at me fit into the neo-Nazi category. It's more like nastiness and rudeness -- and a lot of it comes from other Jews.
The Nazi analogy was to illustrate the power of words and their real life consequences. My trolls run the gamut from pro-Pali to KKK adherents. No other Jews yet, thank goodness, or I might really lose it!
I have to admit I actually loved that post that you cited, and I am glad you didn't block it. Although it admittedly gets a bit ad hominem against you personally, it is obvious that the author is coming from a place of love for the Jewish people, and concern that they should continue to thrive in the future. Surprise, I don't agree with some things you say, but I subscribe here because I see the same motivation in your writing and I want to support smart people who care about the well-being of the Jewish people, even if we disagree on some stuff (two Jews, three opinions, so it's inevitable anyway).
Remember, in Herzl's day Zionism was thought to be an impossible longshot. Unfortunately, its fruition came too late to save most European Jews, but at least Israel was there to absorb the Jewish refugees from the antisemitism of the Arab/Muslim world in the 1950s, and later the Ethiopian and Soviet communities.
In terms of blocking those people who appear indifferent to the safety and security of the Jewish people, let alone their thriving, I'd have no problem with that, although it's not such a big deal to just ignore their posts.
It was a personal attack on another Jew--how is that an expression of "love for the Jewish people"? While it was totally uncalled for, I will not censor it--that's my take.
Just want to point out: you commented here to express that you disagree with a lot of what I say, and you did so in a respectful and measured tone. I can't control how others react to my stuff, but my point is that it's possible to express your disagreement in a way that doesn't make you appear as an unhinged bitch. Do I think you're doing this out of "a place for love of the Jewish people"? I have no idea -- it's just a single comment on my work, and I take it as it is.
well, we all get emotionally worked up over issues we care deeply about. maybe if she'd slept on it a night or so before hitting "post" she might have toned down her invective a bit. or maybe not. admittedly, the venom was not directed at me so it was easier for me to disregard and be amused rather than offended. i imagine it must be a lot tougher for you, being the person targeted. point taken.
Good for you for not blocking those who express different views, no matter how uncivil they do that. I block only a few and that occurs after they endlessly do nothing but engage in f-bomb laden insults, devoid of substance. My time is limited and they don’t deserve any of it.
Re something you said in this post, I’ll share a comment. You say, “They throw around the terms “genocide,” “apartheid,” and “evil” to the point they’ve lost all meaning.”
I understand that you personally believe that these terms aren’t always appropriate re Israel’s behavior over the post-Oslo period and especially since the nightmare of 10/7. But they certainly haven’t lost meaning.
We just passed the anniversary of the liberation of Dachau as a reminder of the horrors of the Holocaust and it offers useful context where the current Gaza situation is concerned.
40,000 Jews and others were killed at Dauchau. 52,000 indigenous Palestinians have been killed in Gaza.
We know, of course, that the Holocaust abomination killed many more as it swallowed an entire continent, while the Gaza genocide has been restricted to a tiny area only twice as large as the District of Columbia. But the density of the organized killing in Gaza has been horrifying.
There is no question as to the profound existence of “evil” in both the Dachau and Gaza instances.
The question of apartheid in the illegally occupied West Bank has been chronicled so many places by so many human rights organizations, authors and journalists, that I’ll limit myself here to suggesting doing Google searches in the subject, with a couple of bookmarks to prime the pump.
I'll state my priors:
1. Antisemitism is not a logical position that can be defeated by rational arguments.
2. Antizionism is genocidal. (actually genocidal, because it wants to violently remove 50 percent of Jews from their homes)
With those, I see no reason to engage in any nonviolent interactions with anti zionists. My life is more pleasant when I block them and don't see them. What's the advantage of talking to these people? This is not a topic reasonable people can disagree on. There aren't a lot of topics like this, but if you start with the assumption that I should be killed along with my children, then you aren't worth talking to.
Your points are well-taken. The issue is - the people I'm mentioning here are choosing to engage with me first. So, yeah, I guess one could just ignore or dismiss them. But I won't.
I think it depends upon how onerous their position is. Saying the Holocaust never happened but it should have been is not a position I have any intention of engaging in. I'm secure that I can prove it happened by any reasonble standard, but to what purpose?
True - but I don’t really find it’s those types of people who choose to engage with me (though I do takedowns of them in entire articles).
You say, “2. Antizionism is genocidal. (actually genocidal, because it wants to violently remove 50 percent of Jews from their homes)”
Before you can call it genocidal, you need to consider how those Jews got their homes — they and the land they are on were stolen from their original Palestinian owners. These are original owners, in many cases, were forced into concentration camps, or murdered.
I do not think that the current owners should be killed, but I do think they should lose their stolen property. I also think it is ironic that the current purveyors of genocide on the Palestinian people are claiming that giving up their ill-gotten gains is “genocide“. No, it’s righting a wrong.
Buying land is theft now? No. Everything you have said is wrong. You are either an antisemite or a useful idiot to antisemites.
The people who come from the US and appropriate a house that has Palestinians currently living in it are paying for that house? Not according to everything I’ve read. Your name calling is not only inaccurate, it is stupid. Anti-Zionist is not antisemitic, and by trying to paint me with that label, you are giving yourself permission to ignore my valid points.
I saw that long comment you cite here and was surprised by the level of venom. Kudos to you for not getting triggered. I do block people but I don’t advertise it as an “own.” I do it for my sanity and to keep from getting pulled into interminable debates with unreasonable people. One guy who blocked me eventually took up hours of my time with his insistent debate. I was never so happy to be censored as when he blocked me.
I respectfully disagree (to a point): I have had trolls post overtly antisemitic comments in response to my posts. These people aren’t looking for dialogue or a conversation of any type, really. They’re just Jew-haters who want to express their hatred to an actual Jew. I see no need to let those be involved in even a tangential way in my life.
And people should see the Jew-hate linked to that person's name, and act accordingly. It should be out in the open for all.
You are quite courageous and open to hear what people say and not to block offensive people. I read that comment and thought it presumptuous and immature. But there are illiberal people out there who are offended by "liberal" views (and respond by being quite offensive themselves), though they are happy to take advantage of liberal forums like Medium. If people don't like your opinions, they respectfully disagree or can stop reading your posts. This is an extremely open forum. One would hope people adhere to standards of civility and not get personal, but I guess we're way past that.
"Civility"? That's not a thing nowadays.
I agree. I think the other problem with blocking (along with only subscribing to blogs and reading sources that share our outlook) is that we burrow even farther into our silos and falsely reassure ourselves that most of the good people out there agree with us. It's important to not lose sight of the truth of what we face out there.
Jill, not only do I tip my hat, but I also Salute you for not blocking the idiots out there! Not only does it take courage, but also a bit of intelligence. Great lines and could not have said it any better.
People honestly believe that blocking people from reading or engaging with their work punishes (or “triggers”) the blockee. No. You are the one who got triggered.
Keep up the good work and fight.
You are hilarious Jill, in a good way. I don't block people, but I ignore certain folk. By ignore, I mean I skim or just delete their response to my comments because they are the same, lame, and a waste of time. I don't block folk because if an idiot cares to threaten me in some way, I want to know about it. As for that long response from an agitated reader you posted in your essay, I lost interest midway through. What struck me was why the person took the time to post a nasty lengthy response. It indicates the person wanted to engage. They cared enough about your opinion to want you to read their opinion. Once a person reaches "jackass" category, I prefer not to get into a braying contest with them. If they continue to bray, let them. I don't listen, I don't care.
I haven't blocked anyone here on Substack, but the minute someone starts spewing hate, lies, and obnoxiousness, I see no reason to hear anything else they have to say. And if they're just idiotic and not completely rude, I write that a donation is being made in their honor to the Jewish National Fund. It feels good to plant a tree in Israel every time a pro-terror Jew-hater holds forth...
I get your point that it’s better to expose the hateful trolls for all the world to see and protect the principles of free speech rather than censor them. But that’s a two-edged sword. You’re also giving them exposure, and with it the opportunity for validation, inspiration and imitation by others of their ilk.
My position is this: They get one and only one chance to abuse me online. I won’t let them hijack my platform to promote their hateful agenda.
Whenever the question “to block or not to block” comes up, I’m reminded of how the Canadian Supreme Court recognized that the Holocaust didn’t start with the gas chambers. It started with words: the Nazi propaganda machine’s relentless, obsessive focus on demonizing the Jews and desensitizing the population so that when the horrors started, there was nary a murmur of dissent.
I get what you're saying and I don't disagree. The truth is however that very few of the trolls and haters who come at me fit into the neo-Nazi category. It's more like nastiness and rudeness -- and a lot of it comes from other Jews.
The Nazi analogy was to illustrate the power of words and their real life consequences. My trolls run the gamut from pro-Pali to KKK adherents. No other Jews yet, thank goodness, or I might really lose it!
I have to admit I actually loved that post that you cited, and I am glad you didn't block it. Although it admittedly gets a bit ad hominem against you personally, it is obvious that the author is coming from a place of love for the Jewish people, and concern that they should continue to thrive in the future. Surprise, I don't agree with some things you say, but I subscribe here because I see the same motivation in your writing and I want to support smart people who care about the well-being of the Jewish people, even if we disagree on some stuff (two Jews, three opinions, so it's inevitable anyway).
Remember, in Herzl's day Zionism was thought to be an impossible longshot. Unfortunately, its fruition came too late to save most European Jews, but at least Israel was there to absorb the Jewish refugees from the antisemitism of the Arab/Muslim world in the 1950s, and later the Ethiopian and Soviet communities.
In terms of blocking those people who appear indifferent to the safety and security of the Jewish people, let alone their thriving, I'd have no problem with that, although it's not such a big deal to just ignore their posts.
It was a personal attack on another Jew--how is that an expression of "love for the Jewish people"? While it was totally uncalled for, I will not censor it--that's my take.
Just want to point out: you commented here to express that you disagree with a lot of what I say, and you did so in a respectful and measured tone. I can't control how others react to my stuff, but my point is that it's possible to express your disagreement in a way that doesn't make you appear as an unhinged bitch. Do I think you're doing this out of "a place for love of the Jewish people"? I have no idea -- it's just a single comment on my work, and I take it as it is.
well, we all get emotionally worked up over issues we care deeply about. maybe if she'd slept on it a night or so before hitting "post" she might have toned down her invective a bit. or maybe not. admittedly, the venom was not directed at me so it was easier for me to disregard and be amused rather than offended. i imagine it must be a lot tougher for you, being the person targeted. point taken.
Good for you for not blocking those who express different views, no matter how uncivil they do that. I block only a few and that occurs after they endlessly do nothing but engage in f-bomb laden insults, devoid of substance. My time is limited and they don’t deserve any of it.
Re something you said in this post, I’ll share a comment. You say, “They throw around the terms “genocide,” “apartheid,” and “evil” to the point they’ve lost all meaning.”
I understand that you personally believe that these terms aren’t always appropriate re Israel’s behavior over the post-Oslo period and especially since the nightmare of 10/7. But they certainly haven’t lost meaning.
We just passed the anniversary of the liberation of Dachau as a reminder of the horrors of the Holocaust and it offers useful context where the current Gaza situation is concerned.
40,000 Jews and others were killed at Dauchau. 52,000 indigenous Palestinians have been killed in Gaza.
We know, of course, that the Holocaust abomination killed many more as it swallowed an entire continent, while the Gaza genocide has been restricted to a tiny area only twice as large as the District of Columbia. But the density of the organized killing in Gaza has been horrifying.
There is no question as to the profound existence of “evil” in both the Dachau and Gaza instances.
The question of apartheid in the illegally occupied West Bank has been chronicled so many places by so many human rights organizations, authors and journalists, that I’ll limit myself here to suggesting doing Google searches in the subject, with a couple of bookmarks to prime the pump.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-apartheid-palestinians-occupation-c8137c9e7f33c2cba7b0b5ac7fa8d115
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid
Never again.
Free the hostages.
End the wholesale killing.