Many of those people who are “talking”(aka shouting) are inciting violence. They have ZERO awareness of what their words mean…or maybe they have the awareness, but they don’t care. Both are horrid.
I saw someone at a demonstration in NYC waiving around a Hamas flag hours after the funeral of an American citizen whom that same organization shot in the head just a few days ago. Fucked up!
"Have I served in the armed forces and seen actual combat? If the answer is no, I do not get to opine on what people “should” do in combat situations."
By that criteria Ben Gvir, Smotrich and the entire Shas and UTJ factions should shut up. Unfortunately they make up the majority of the Israeli government.
Whatever the actual number of Gazan civilians killed by the IDF (as opposed to killed by misfired Hamas and PIJ munitions or targeted directly by them) prove to be, two things are true.
First, the IDF is not, as a policy, intentionally seeking out uninvolved civilians to murder them. Neither, if one took the time to understand the multiple levels of review before approving a target, has the bombing been indiscriminate. Perhaps one day historians will untangle the reasons why President Biden accepted (after briefly rejecting) the Hamas created casualty numbers and called Israel’s bombing “indiscriminate”.
Second and perhaps more to the point is the combination of crocodile tears and hypocrisy fairly dripping from Western leaders who decry the level of civilian deaths. Their proclamations ring particularly hollow when one realizes that they all acquiesced in Egypt’s decision to close its border to all Gazans seeking safety, other than those capable of bribing their way through.
The excuse trotted out at the time was the absurd “to allow Gazans to flee would be to become complicit in Israel’s plans to ethnically cleanse Gaza.” Even were there such a plan, and there is no evidence that there is, in what moral universe is it proper for outsiders to make the decision for those whose lives are at stake that they should run the risk of dying for some abstract principle.
Imagine the outcry had the EU closed its borders to Ukraine on similar grounds of moral purity. Given the brutality of Russia’s invasion, claims of ethnic cleaning at least have some basis in reality. After all, Putin is not moving the Ukrainian civilians to safer spaces to limit casualties as his forces pursue the Ukrainian military.
It doesn’t require satisfying the otherwise useful three conditions set out in this article to pose those questions in a public forum.
Many of those people who are “talking”(aka shouting) are inciting violence. They have ZERO awareness of what their words mean…or maybe they have the awareness, but they don’t care. Both are horrid.
I saw someone at a demonstration in NYC waiving around a Hamas flag hours after the funeral of an American citizen whom that same organization shot in the head just a few days ago. Fucked up!
very fucked up
It's hard to put into words what an utterly vile human being and despicable liar Abby Martin is.
Agreed! The lack of self-awareness is breathtaking!
You make some good points Jill, BUT:
"Have I served in the armed forces and seen actual combat? If the answer is no, I do not get to opine on what people “should” do in combat situations."
By that criteria Ben Gvir, Smotrich and the entire Shas and UTJ factions should shut up. Unfortunately they make up the majority of the Israeli government.
They need to do more than shut up, they need to resign!
Whatever the actual number of Gazan civilians killed by the IDF (as opposed to killed by misfired Hamas and PIJ munitions or targeted directly by them) prove to be, two things are true.
First, the IDF is not, as a policy, intentionally seeking out uninvolved civilians to murder them. Neither, if one took the time to understand the multiple levels of review before approving a target, has the bombing been indiscriminate. Perhaps one day historians will untangle the reasons why President Biden accepted (after briefly rejecting) the Hamas created casualty numbers and called Israel’s bombing “indiscriminate”.
Second and perhaps more to the point is the combination of crocodile tears and hypocrisy fairly dripping from Western leaders who decry the level of civilian deaths. Their proclamations ring particularly hollow when one realizes that they all acquiesced in Egypt’s decision to close its border to all Gazans seeking safety, other than those capable of bribing their way through.
The excuse trotted out at the time was the absurd “to allow Gazans to flee would be to become complicit in Israel’s plans to ethnically cleanse Gaza.” Even were there such a plan, and there is no evidence that there is, in what moral universe is it proper for outsiders to make the decision for those whose lives are at stake that they should run the risk of dying for some abstract principle.
Imagine the outcry had the EU closed its borders to Ukraine on similar grounds of moral purity. Given the brutality of Russia’s invasion, claims of ethnic cleaning at least have some basis in reality. After all, Putin is not moving the Ukrainian civilians to safer spaces to limit casualties as his forces pursue the Ukrainian military.
It doesn’t require satisfying the otherwise useful three conditions set out in this article to pose those questions in a public forum.
Perhaps it’s not obvious, but you appear to care a great deal about what people say during interviews or when on panels.
This runs counter to your “shut up” thesis that “nobody cares”.
I often hate things I hear but free speech isn’t negotiable. The answer for all of us is to not listen if it is that bothersome.
I'll listen to what anyone has to say if it crosses my feed. The question is the weight that I choose to give it.
Of course. Eminently sensible and far different from “shut the f$&k up”.
Trust me, half the people commenting stupidly about this conflict would be doing a major public service if they STFU.